The transcription of the video is below. 

Nalin Agarwal’s background

Jon: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to SolarAcademy and SunCast Media. Today, I have a very special guest, and an old friend. We are going to be discussing clean economy solutions, but also, as it relates to machine learning and artificial intelligence, specifically focused on the Global South. So let me start by introducing Nalin Agarwal. 

Nalin is the current managing director or co-managing director, I should say, of the Climate Seeds Fund, located here in India, and just for some context, I am currently in Ahmedabad. I’ll be attending some generative AI sessions here  at IIMA, and currently, Nalin is in Delhi. And welcome, Nalin, to the program.

Nalin: Thank you, Jon. And thank you for the introduction. Happy to be here. 

Jon: Super, super. Well, to give some context, I’d like our community to get to know you a little bit. I have had the pleasure of knowing you and Pratap, your co-founder for many years, probably now seven, six, seven years. So you’re definitely not new to cleantech. You’re not new to innovation.

You’re someone that has a great education from Imperial College and then a mechanical engineering undergraduate degree, but that really is sort of the start of your story. 

Let’s turn the clock back to the early 2010s, when you were with Fonroche and the project development you were working on.

Nalin: Awesome. Thanks, Jon. That’s actually a very nice kind of milestone-based summary of the journey. So, you know, I’ll just go a few years before that. So during my undergrad, I was lucky to kind of be able to convene a group of students at the university. And we managed to raise a small grant from the UN. It was actually an award called Mondialogo.

And it’s no longer there, but we managed to secure the grant and do some rural solar electrification, you know? And that really got me interested in, generally, the development space. And I found that – so I’m an engineer by choice, less by design. So I used to love machines. So I like mechanical engineering, of course.

And then I found, eventually, I mean, right now, I’m looking back. It seems like a more natural fit than it was then. But I found renewable energy was a nice amalgamation of my two interests, right, the engineering side and the development side, you know? 

Not much of a clean energy, renewable energy industry, at least in India back then. There were, you know, a few companies doing wind. That was driven largely by tax credits more than fundamentals, you know? 

Renewable Energy & Sustainability

Anyway, so I decided to pursue that. We published a paper, which was quite unusual for undergrads, in the energy policy journal on green hydrogen, what is now called green hydrogen. We were looking at offshore wind electrolysis to essentially create hydrogen for the transport sector. And we had done long range modeling. And actually, it was well received and we presented that paper in Taiwan, et cetera.

It also got me to a summer school in Denmark later, and then eventually, Imperial, as you mentioned. So I decided this is the area that I want to be in. So I didn’t work after my undergrad. I went straight to study, which was also something that, at least in India, people tend to encourage that, you know? There are two schools of thought, but I chose the no-gap and then moved on.

This turned out well. Imperial was great, a very small, but passionate bunch of people, you know? So I was highly inspired by them. I continue to be inspired by some of the work that those people do. And then, I mean, what I realized was a lot of the work that I wanted to do was actually, I would be better able to do it in India.

So I decided to return. It was also 2008, so the recession was on. It didn’t bother us too much, actually, to be honest. There were still some kind of openings in banking or consultancy, but I didn’t want to get into that, right? I wanted to do projects. 

So I came back, and then, you know, a few months later, I met, you know, my partners and co-founders who have been – we’ve been together for the last 13 years now. So Pratap, who you know very well, and his brother Pramod, we essentially grew a solar and wind project development company between 2009 and 2015. It did about 84 megawatts. Again, a great time. It was the start of the solar journey in India, you know, small community at the beginning, which has thankfully, grown much larger.

Prices have come down a lot, helped by global macroeconomic factors. But I must say that the Indian government did an incredibly good job of setting a policy, right, which did not burden the treasury too much, right? Ultimately, we’re a lower to middle income country, right?

You cannot burden the treasury too much. So what the Indian government did was a very innovative policy. They bundled expensive solar with cheaper coal power to give, you know, a blended cost of power, not green power power, which was acceptable to the buyers of electricity. So very innovative, I thought, and that’s what has led to a huge kind of growth of solar, which, otherwise, in an FIT environment, for example, would have been much slower because, you know, you can only allocate so much within the budget.

So they used market forces and market economics to kind of make sure capital deployment occurred. Of course, we were helped by capacity addition in China and the demand side that Germany provided, you know, to make sure that the overall market kind of flourished, right? But we still have to take that opportunity, and we did. 

We didn’t do so well in manufacturing, but I think they’re trying now, right? 

I think, overall, I have a positive view of the last 10 years, last 13 years of solar in India, right? They have to be –

Jon: Hey, Nalin. I have to interrupt for a moment and remind you that I served as an advisor to Inderpreet Wadhwa at Azure Power in the very, very early days of their business, who ultimately became at the time, I think this was 2009, maybe ’09, maybe 2010.

Yeah, they were very, very early and it was a two-megawatt facility, and it was the biggest at the time. Yeah. And the Punjab and my gosh, that was a real hurdle to come over to get that facility completed and commissioned. And the company went on to go public and all sorts of things happened, which was positive, but your early days stories are so illustrative of the marketplace and something I’ve become more familiar with, which is, jugaad, a very specific Indian term. Explain to the viewers what jugaad is, because it really is intertwined with every innovation step here.

Nalin: Sure. Sure. Sure. So jugaad has both positive and negative connotations. I like to view it as resourcefulness and almost scrappy innovation, right? It’s getting things done in a hard environment, or in an uncertain way. I think one thing Indians do well is operate in an environment of uncertainty. 

And that’s why this term has come around. It’s making sure you get things done, when you don’t have sufficient information and perhaps, the external environment is not always in your favor. Right? 

So I mean, yeah, examples, the bad examples include things which are patch fixes, right? But the good examples include, you know, include ways to think, do things faster, while not compromising on outcomes.

The Evolution of Climate Innovation in India

Jon: Well, so Inderpreet used to say it’s, here in India, it’s frugal innovation. That’s the way he described it. And, you know, we saw some great workarounds during those early days. And I was just like amazed because in parallel, I was in China, where that sovereign was entirely running the show, and all industries were aligned and there were ecosystems being built to support the supply chains and things like this.

Whereas, in India, it felt a little more dispersed in terms of the structure and the power lines and things like this. So tell me a little bit about where you’ve gone since the project development days, because there was the formation of Climate Collective. It’s currently a very big force in the Global South and now, the Seeds Fund.

Nalin: Right, right. You know, thanks, Jon. I think this is a very nice segment that I like to pick up on the trend you started. So in India, we’re generally resource-constrained in many ways. But what we’re not, what we’re very good at is having a massive set of entrepreneurial people, a culture of innovation, right, and a big market, where you can test products out, right? 

So what’s happened is that instead of the top down approach, which as you mentioned is there in certain countries, we’ve had a bottom up approach, where a lot of solution development is following demands, right? Where the need is, those solutions will be developed, and capital comes in to support that. Right? 

So I believe long-term, that’s a much more sustainable model because you are following demand versus someone else setting that. Ideally, you don’t want the government to be in the process of technology selection. The government has to be. You cannot prevent that, but ideally, you want the market to do that.

So, that’s how we actually started the Climate Collective. We got out of the solar and wind space in 2015, when the market changed, and it was no longer a place for entrepreneurs. It was more of a balance sheet finance game. 

So we exited that space, sold it, sold the assets to a much bigger player, and with New Energy Nexus, which Jon, of course, where you were part of a critical start off, with New Energy Nexus at that time, you know, this is 2016 when the transition from only the name transitioned from CalCEF to New Energy Nexus was happening. We did the first Solar Hackathon in India, just to gauge the market, right?

Jon: I remember that. I remember that. Yeah. That was fantastic. It was really the lighthouse moment, where you and Pratap pulled together a huge hackathon with a bunch of very smart young people, women and men, coming together to just solve a demand problem.

And they selected it, and then they just went after it. And, you know, I think Danny was there, wasn’t he?

Nalin: I mean, Danny was involved, but he didn’t come to India. Hendrick was there.

Jon: Ah, that’s right. That’s right. Hendrick came. Okay. Perfect. Wow. It was a very exciting moment. So that was sort of the Climate Collective, New Energy Nexus. First moment together was that first hackathon. I remember that.

Nalin: That’s right. And it was, you know, so none of us were sure what – there was no climate tech then. It was – and for us coming from the solar side, even cleantech was an ephemeral concept, right? We are like project developers. We understand project finance. We understand EPC and hardware and all of that, right? 

So, in fact, that was a good education for us working with CalCEF and Danny, who started SunCube earlier, as to understanding what cleantech is, you know? So not knowing what the market is, the Solar Hackathon presented a good way to kind of gauge the market.

We got, as you mentioned, a bunch of entrepreneurs, some founders, some aspiring entrepreneurs who came together. There were 36 people. I presume, I mean, we don’t have hard numbers, but at that time, probably there would have been less than 50, certainly, maybe in the 30, actual cleantech startups in India, right?

Because it was, I mean, solar was burgeoning in those markets. So that’s what’s leading to some of these tech startups coming up, but it was not there. Right? So it’ll give us a good sense. Then in 2017, we tied up with Climate-KIC, K-I-C out of EU.

Jon: Out of UK, yeah, out of EU. Right.

Nalin: They’ve run a successful program in the EU called ClimateLaunchpad, which they want to do it, expand beyond the EU’s borders. So we partnered with them, eventually became South Asia partners for India, which is a big one, of course, but also Sri Lanka and Maldives. And then we supported the Nepal and Bangladesh programs, as well.

So that, of course, got us more entrenched. So again, one of the first climate accelerators in South Asia. Ran that for many years, slow going, very slow going, Jon. Right? The first three, four years, we used to get like 1, 2 lakh checks. So this is the equivalent of like, you know, $2000 or less, revenue a year.

So it was really just building, building, building; 2019 and 2020 is when we saw a bit of a change. In fact, COVID, actually, led to a re-allocation of priorities and re-allocation of capital, globally, and that kind of, the ripple effect came into India. So last three, four years, we’ve seen a few trends that have emerged, and I’ll come to that in a bit.

Okay. Actually, let me come to that now. And then I’ll also talk a little bit, just two minutes on the Climate Collective and how we’ve kind of managed to also be part of that change. Right?

The Growth of Climate Tech Startups

Nothing moves the needle as much as good entrepreneurs coming into the space, right? Otherwise, it’s a chicken and egg situation.

Entrepreneurs need to see there’s sufficient capital to make sure that time is worth it, right? And growth opportunities are there. More importantly, the market is ready for it. Investors need to see that they’re right, the best entrepreneurs coming into the space, right? So that’s our belief. That’s my belief that entrepreneurs are important, the most important factor, if you want to see, if you want to gauge whether the sector is right, right? 

And this is something we’ve seen anecdotally, and the numbers bear it out. Right? Today, there are over 3,000 climate tech startups in India. Wow. Probably one of the top.

Jon: Wow. From 30 to 3,000 in four years. 

Nalin: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jon: Wow. 

Nalin: Four or five years. Correct. So it’s a big change. So those are the numbers. And then anecdotally, we have startups. Startup founders, you know, who have come into our programs, who said that they’ve exited other sectors and they’ve decided to come into climate, right? So climate helped with those areas where they felt they could align values and, you know, values and profit.

So climate, so good entrepreneurs coming in. The other thing that’s key, which wasn’t there when we were in the project development game was the business case for decarbonization is very strong, right? 

In the last two years, corporates have understood that this is not just a you know, it’s not just ESG or reporting thing. The the bottom line impact of adopting green or essentially working towards a low carbon and eventually, zero carbon transition is going to be positive for business.

Not just what it does to your stock price, but also what it does to your bottom line. 

Jon: Yes, that’s right. 

Nalin: So that’s very positive. It’s also helped by, again, macro trends, technology prices have crashed, you know, solar and storage by 90%in 10 years. Incredible. Wind, less so, but still incredible, like 60%, 70%, right? 

So now I think 70% or 80% of the world’s population lives in areas where the cheapest source of power generation is either solar or wind. Incredible. This didn’t exist when we were in the solar space, right? 

So these two key factors, and what this has allowed is for late – and also, the other thing that happened was late-stage capital allocators, right?

Capital markets, PE, et cetera. They started, whether it’s translating into large allocations is different, but at least they started allocating capital and that sent signals to earlier stage investors, right? VCs, et cetera. So now we have dedicated climate funds. We have agnostic climates with specific climate tech thesis.

And we have checked agnostic funds, which also invest in climate without having a clear thesis, right? But a general investment thesis.

Jon: And just so I’m clear, these are private equity firms, venture firms that are INR denominated and can only invest in domestic India companies. 

Or are these global players that have other currency denominations that can make an allocation to an INR, in INR to an India- based company?

What does the majority of this marketplace look like?

Nalin: Right. You know, it’s a good question. It’s a mix of all. Right? But most funds are India-focused, and therefore, India-denominated, even though overseas like the multinational funds like the Sequoia, et cetera, now they will have an Indian presence, in India, fund structure, typically an alternative investment fund. 

They may raise from overseas, LPs, but they’re almost always deploying an INR. Right? Some of the funds have the ability to also, you know, deploy a part of the Corpus into the rest of South Asia, Southeast Asia, et cetera. But this is very much, at least the funds that I have in my mind and the ones that I’m referring to, they’re very much India-focused, INR deployment.

Fundraising could be LPs, you know, overseas, but just to mention capital. LPs or HNIs, as well as family offices, and institutional, right? So it could LBI, NEEV. They are large institutional players that are also LPs, domestic. 

Jon: Are you finding that the major family offices and, you know, some names that come to mind are, you know, Tata, the Reliance family, you know, some of the other industrials, I mean, of course, the Mahindra family, et cetera.

Are you finding that these families are putting forward early stage allocations, venture allocations, growth stage allocations into climate solutions companies in India or in Bangladesh or South Asia, etc? 

The Expanding Impact Investment Landscape and Climate Tech Ecosystem in India

Nalin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the families you’ve named, obviously, you know, probably top 10 family offices, in terms of, you know, their resources and wealth, so the answer, short answer to that is yes.

The longer answer is these families plus more, right? We have generally, a large market cap, and you know, probably hundreds of large market cap companies, so even families from there. 

And this is a trend that’s also happening in the U. S. right? There’s an intergenerational transfer of wealth that’s happening, right?

And the new generation also wants to work on impact, climate impact, right? So they’re allocating capital. 

There are two ways into funds, or as direct investments into cap table, right? Now there are certain advantages in each. Of course, being direct cap table investors means you have to have the ability to source, vet, screen, and then do undertake DD on a startup, which not all family offices have or want to have, right?

In those cases, they may want to become direct LPs into funds. But overall it’s happening, some of them also deploy through their corporate venture arms, right? So Reliance is generally a prolific acquirer of TRL 5 and above companies. Tata is also supporting Social Alpha, for example, which is a long-term incubator and deployment stage, yeah, program implementer. That’s Tata.

Mahindra, of course, is pretty good at also open innovation, spinning out its own, you know, companies that it kind

of incubates, also acquires a few companies. So that’s on these three? Yes? And a fair few others.

So there are about 139. This is slightly dated. It’s nine months old research, but there’s about 139 corporates that we had identified, Indian corporates that had made some form of public decarbonization pledge, whether it’s a 2030 target of net zero, or a 2040 or a 2050, more aggressive than for example, the national target.

And I’m quite positive. I think India will become net zero before our stated target, you know, because I think, you know, it sounds counterintuitive, but Indian corporates are generally more aggressively trying to be, yeah, they’re trying to decarbonize, and that’s because it makes bottom line sense. Right? And we can you know –

Jon: So that’s wonderful that we’re there. I mean, as you’ve described, we have, here in India, you’re saying that the cost of a solar electron or a wind-generated electron is lower cost than even the politically-subsidized coal programs, or there aren’t that many natural gas generators, I don’t believe.

So the primary is hydro and coal generation, which is the competing electron on the network. So we’re seeing that we’re there from a generation’s perspective. Obviously, that’s got to scale up, but that’s not really a private equity venture game. It’s more of a structured finance, big annuity type of investing like funds.

And that’s great. And they should be there. They should be active and they should increase in their velocity, et cetera. But your new Climate Seeds Fund, tell us a little bit about that because that seems to be that early, early growth stage intervention for capital, where people can really – the expectation is quite high in terms of returns, but it’s also where the opportunity is.

Nalin: Yes. Yes. You’re right. So the Climate Seeds Fund, as you mentioned is our venture capital fund, which is the pre series A fund, right? 

Now, I’ll just step back just for a minute and tell you how this kind of came about. So the Climate Collective is essentially an ecosystem builder, a climate tech, early stage climate tech startup ecosystem builder, right, an early stage for us is pre series A, so everything pre series A is where we operate, right? 

So, you know, we started off with accelerators, and we have four accelerators across the startup journey. So climate ready, which is largely focused on business literacy, especially for women entrepreneurs and students, university students, right?

The next stage of accelerator is climate launch, which is the MVP stage, and we get to start to get to customer validation. Then we have climate runway, which is a sales growth accelerator. And then finally, climate takeoff.

There are two key accelerator, one is electron, right? So the only program in India that connects electric utilities, electricity, utilities, and startups. And we’ve been running this for three years, not an easy market for various reasons, structural reasons, but we’ve been kind of sticking at it. And we have now, you know, some trust among the utilities space that these guys are around and trying to help the power sector, kind of reform, right? So fairly few pilots have emerged. About 36 startups have gone through this. Overall, we’ve supported about close to 900 startups now, right? That’s a large number of startups. 

Understanding Climate Startup Accelerators, Grants, and Angel Investments

Jon: Now, just for some clarification in the – because in the Climate Collective network where you’re doing that ecosystem building, it’s the launch, the MVP, the runway, and the takeoff. Are you taking an equity position in these companies for your contribution?

Nalin: No, no. So we’ve not taken any equity positions in any of these companies so far. This is run as a not-for-profit, right? Now, what we’re doing is we have now four, in addition to these four accelerators, we have four funding platforms, right?

One is a grant-making platform called Climate Pitch, where we essentially channel corporate CSR money as grants into startups. Then we have something called Climate Seeders Club, which is an angel investment network. We have something called climate tech investment network which is the institutional investment network.

So the angel network has about 250 angels right now. The institutional network, largely VCs has about 140. So you can imagine those 140 members, all work-climate focused, some Indians, some non-Indians. These are global funds, as well. But they’re all looking at climate in India, right? 

And then the Seed Fund, right? So the Seed Fund and the institutional network kind of work in the same stage. Right? So it’s in the Seed Fund where we will start taking equity positions. 

So we’ve taken conscious decision. It was a debate internally whether we should or we should not. We’ve decided not to and kept the accelerators entirely in the not-for-profit entity, right?

And in the fund structures, which is the Seeders Club, as well as the Seeds Fund is where we will start taking equity positions. Right?

Jon: Okay. So just so I’m clear, I want to just recap for a second. Climate Pitch is the NGO that’s deploying grants. Then you have the Climate Angel Network, and then you have the Climate Investing Institutional Network, and then you have the Seed Fund. Is that right?

Nalin: Just to clarify, not the Climate Angel Network. That’s the Angel Network. It’s called the Climate Seeders Club.

Jon: Ah, Feeders. 

Nalin: Seeders as in like seed, like the seed of a plant. 

Jon: Oh, Seeders. Okay. Sorry. Yes. Great. Climate Seeders Network, which is the angel network. So just for some perspective, how many grants have you done collectively or annually? Or just give some sort of scope. Is this, you know, USD50,000 equivalent of deployments over four years, or is it more than that?

Nalin: So it’s about, cumulatively, just under 200 K.

Jon: Okay, great. Great. So these are checks in the sort of 10,000-15,000 range.

Nalin: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Jon: Okay. Okay. Great, great. And then the angel network, how much has been deployed through the Seeders network?

Nalin: So Seeders is relatively new. We started just a few months ago. About six or seven startups have come through this.

We’ve not syndicated. It’s purely syndication platform, right? So this is something that we are just setting up. We haven’t deployed any capital, but I mean, we have deployed some capital, in that, you know, in that order of magnitude per deal, about 10,000-15,000 U. S. Let me try to convert quickly.

But yeah, so this is something that we are just testing out, in fact. This was sort of part funded by, you know, a foundation just to see if there’s a demand for something like this. 

Jon: Okay, okay. So this was through the Ikea Foundation that was looking to sort of create a network of smaller check investors looking to allocate towards ideas in climate solutions and they do, the idea is 10-15 K collectively in a crowd-sourced type of vehicle that they then help this, you know, the CEO gets that first check, potentially along with the grant. 

Nalin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, the idea is, let’s say again, so 4, 000 till about, let’s say 12, 000 U.S. dollars per angel, but in round sizes of, let’s say about 30,000 to about 200K.

Deep Dive into Climate Tech Investment and AI Opportunities in India

Jon: Ah, okay. So these are real allocations that could look like a pre C.

Nalin: Yes. Exactly.

Jon: Okay. Okay. I see, I see. That makes sense. And are these INR? Are these foreigners, Indians, or are these domestic, for the most part?

Nalin: Actually, domestic. 

Jon: Ah, that’s good. 

Nalin: Probably, they’re largely domestic.

Jon: Okay. And then we step to the innovation, sorry, the institutional network. 

Nalin: Climate Tech Investment Network, yeah. So that is again, a syndication platform. We’ve had a few deals go through there. We do essentially very regular pitch days, right? What we don’t have the ability to do, what we want to do more is active, like post pitch day, active syndication support. 

It’s just that we’re constrained because of the various things we do there, but there are about 78 startups that have pitched over the last two years in about 13 pitch days, are generally are a kind of mandate stop. So we do a pitch-readiness program before the pitch day. We, of course, select. We get a fair few applications. We shortlist select, and then we do a pitch-readiness program. And then we do a pitch day. And generally, you know, that’s where our mandates stop because that’s where we have the ability to. So we’ve had a few, you know, we’ve had a few investments come out of there.

Definitely, you know, lots of startups who’ve come in front of investors as a result, right? But we generally stop right there.

Jon: Okay. And the next stage is the new Seeds Fund, which is, I think that’s a GP/LP structured fund that you and Pratap are running. Is that right? 

Nalin: Correct. Correct. 

Jon: Okay. So tell us a little bit about that. 

Nalin: The Seeds Fund. Yes. So Seeds Fund is right now, it’s a $19 million Corpus. We’ve raised it partly, but we intend to close that mid of next year, start deploying a similar time. It will be a co-investor model. So we will put in, again, the equivalent of about USD140 into each round, right?  It makes, I mean, these numbers make more sense when they convert it in INR, right? 

Jon: Yeah, why 140? Because it might be some level of Indian, yeah, of INR. I get it. So about 140, 150 per deal. 

Nalin: Correct. Correct. 

Jon: And you’re not looking to lead. You’re looking to syndicate. You’re saying, Hey, if there’s a lead, participate.

Nalin: We will be leading a few rounds, even though we may not be the largest check. That’s okay. Because what we’ve done, Jon, as you know, so we are entrepreneurs ourselves. We understand the space, and we have in-house capability to lead deals and undertake DD, etc. And so that’s what the ecosystem sees us as.

So they’re comfortable if we lead, even if we’re not the largest check. Right? And we are okay if there’s a trusted lead, leading and we come in as a co-investor. 

Jon: To participate, too. Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. So this has been a great start to a much longer conversation. And I do want to get to some of the machine learning opportunities and also some of the artificial intelligence opportunities here in India and South Asia. 

But I want to save those for the next session. So it was super, super great to catch up with you here. And I really look forward to our next session together, where we can start diving into where we are with machine learning opportunities, in climate solutions, here in India and through the Global South, which, of course, you, Pratap, and your other partners are so involved with. 

So Nalin, I want to thank you so much for being such a great guest here today. 

Nalin: Well, thank you, Jon.

Jon: And I look forward to our next session together. Because this is, you know, as I said, I’m here in India. I spent – I’m starting to spend a lot of time here and having a dear friend in you and Pratap and others here in the community, is wonderful. 

So thank you so much. 

Nalin: Now, we both regard you very highly Jon and all the work you do, for the space, especially with the Global South. Not many people see and recognize a lot of the innovation that’s coming out of India and generally the Global South. And we know huge market is critical in this transition. Right? 

And just to kind of end this off, ClimateAi is a key focus for us. Deep tech is a key focus for us in general, increasingly, mostly, it’s a personal area of interest for me. It’s an area that we are trying to build stronger capabilities in AI and especially ClimateAi is a core part of deep tech for us. 

I’d also like to just say if this is going out in the next few days, there’s a  climate startup week that’s happening. It’s a bi-annual summit, lots of great events. If you’re in India –

Jon: Give the URL, give the URL, right now.

Nalin: Yes. Yes. So it’s climatestartupweek.com. 

Jon: Okay, perfect. 

Nalin: It’s on until the 24th week of –

Jon: September. This is not going to publish before probably October. So people will miss it. But they can go back to the website, and they can see. 

Nalin: They should go back. 

Jon: Yeah. So say the URL.

Nalin: Every March and September. So climatestartupweek.com, every September, every March, we do a bunch of events between 30 and 40 events online and offline.

People should come in. And we have an investor focus event that will happen in November, right? There’s going to be COP, as well, a large presence, six of us. We’re going to be doing a bunch of masterclasses, round tables, et cetera. So I’m happy if people want to reach out.

Jon: Super. Super. Well, we’re going to put your contact details in the show notes for the publishing. But I want to thank you again. It’s really been great to catch up, and I look forward to our next session together.

Nalin: Awesome, Jon. Have a good, good few days, wherever you are. You’ll be traveling quite a lot. Thanks.