Emmvee: An Indian Solar Panel Manufacturer in the US

The transcription of the video is below. 

Justin Redd’s background in the solar industry

Kerim: Hi, everyone. This is Kerim, Kerim Baran with SolarAcademy, and I have with me Justin Redd of Emmvee. Emmvee is a relatively new name in the U.S. Market and the U.S. solar module market. 

And today, we’re going to talk a little bit about Justin’s background, Emmvee, a manufacturing company out of India, which is making inroads into the U.S. solar market. And what makes Emmvee unique?

Justin, welcome.

Justin: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Kerim.

Kerim: So, Justin, tell me a little bit about your story. You used to be, from our previous conversations, I remember you used to be with Sharp in the olden days, in the very early days of like 2010s,  I believe, operating in the solar market. 

Justin: Yeah.

Kerim: Then you were an entrepreneur for a while, and then you got recruited back into the solar industry to lead Emmvee’s entry into the US. So can you – 

Justin: That’s right.

Kerim: – tell us a little bit about that?

Justin: Yeah, for sure. 

Kerim: Or maybe go back even farther if you want.

Justin: Yeah. So I’ve been in the solar industry one form or another for the last 13 or 14 years. Started out in the State of Tennessee. I was in grad school, at the University of Tennessee, working on my master’s, and at the time I was –

Kerim: What’s your master’s in?

Justin: My master’s in HR. So I have a bachelor’s in accounting, and a master’s in HR. 

Kerim: Nice.

Justin: And so at the time I was, you know, when you work for a university, you go to grad school at no cost, no tuition. And so at the time I was working in the accounting office of the Office of Research while I was getting my master’s degree, and this was in around 2009, after they had passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. 

And so the State of Tennessee was awarded, I would say, about 50 million or so dollars. Maybe it was a little bit more, to create the Tennessee Solar Institute, and to expand the solar value chain in the State of Tennessee. And so this was a program that was out of Commissioner Kisber’s office, who is, as you know, is the Chairman of Silicon Ranch. And so we worked closely with his office to create two different programs.

There was the solar installation program, where we provided a per kilowatt incentive for commercial installation. And then there was, what we call development grants to businesses in the solar value chain. So whether that was Sharp, AGC Glass, at the time, Shoals, Hemlock, Wacker that fund was purely focused on workforce development, technical assistance, and then just making sure that these manufacturers completed the solar value chain. 

The vision was to have everything that you needed to manufacture solar modules in the State of Tennessee. And so that’s how I got my start in the solar industry, and then from there, I was recruited over to Sharp, and so that was my first sales role. And so you know, although Sharp is a household name, they were killing it. I was crushing it. And then, after Sharp ended up closing the doors of the Memphis factory. I kind of pulled back from the solar business, and solar. From there, I had a brief stint at Soligent before the changes with ITOCHU, and then I spent the next, I’d say, 5 or 6 years with a company called Stion, which is a CIGS thin-film module manufacturer. 

Kerim: Wow!

Justin: So I’ve sold crystal modules, I’ve sold thin film modules. There I started out as a territory rep director on the East Coast. Quickly went up the ranks, VP of Global Sales, opened new markets in Australia, Turkey, the Benelux area. And then, obviously, you know, I have the sales here in the US. 

And so thin film’s a tough product to manufacture, and the people could argue there’s only one company that’s gotten it right, and it’s First Solar and they’re still in business.  

Kerim: First Solar, yeah. 

Justin: But other than First Solar, nobody’s quite had the magic formula, and it really just comes down to the manufacturing process. I mean, you’ve got to turn that line on and just let it run. You can’t go up and down, up and down.

Kerim: Yeah, yeah. Got it. I’d seemed to remember you were involved more in the operational backgrounds, or like the operational function at Sharp, too? Or were you ever on the manufacturing side or in the factory? 

Justin: Yeah. So by me being from Memphis, at the time, again I was still living in Tennessee, and so Sharp manufacturing facility was in Memphis. So my office was there at the factory. It was literally two steps, two doors down from the president of the factory. 

Kerim: Nice. That’s a good place to be as a sales guy, I guess. 

Justin: No. Yeah, for sure it was you know, it’s great to be able to walk out to the floor, see the factory in motion, see the products being made. You know, if I had an order that needed to get out, I could literally go right down to logistics department and say, “Hey, let’s get this on the truck now.” 

And then, also, just to see the people at the factory, the jobs that were created was a direct result of the sales that myself and my team were out or done closing. Yeah. So that was full circle for me.

How and why Justin Redd joined Emmvee

Kerim: Nice. And so now here we are, you leading Emmvee’s entry into the U.S. market. And you were, you also had an entrepreneurial stint in between. So I guess Emmvee recruited you, too. I’m assuming that.

Justin: Yes, and so after Stion, after Khosla Ventures decided to shut down Stion, in which another CIGS system manufacturer, Sunflare, which was not, I mean, we did do commercial installations. It was a flexible, thin film, peel and stick adhesive product for flat commercial rooftops. Spent two and a half years there and then the pandemic happened.

And at the same time well, actually before, because Sunflare is a Chinese company, which was a subsidiary of Kinfine, which is a furniture manufacturer based in China, so they manufactured furniture in China. Then they come to sell in stores like Target and Walmart. And Sunflare was a subsidiary of that company, but in 20 – I forget what year this was – 2019, when the Trump Administration introduced tariffs on all things, China, that affected the business. 

The pandemic affected the business. People in the beginning weren’t necessarily spending a lot on furniture. Obviously, solar was shut down. Solar construction was shut down for a while there. 

And so you know, which just came to a point to where it was unsustainable. And so Sunflare, they’re still around now. They kind of focus on residential stuff. 

But I just took a step back from the industry, focused on the restaurant that I owned in LA to try and to figure out and navigate that business in the pandemic, and I would say I was out for about two years, and then I got a call from Krishna Murthy, who is our head of HR in India, and we had a conversation, saying, “I want to talk to you about Emmvee.” Like I’ve never heard of this company, Emmvee. You know, same reaction that most of our customers give us when we reach out to them. So you know, I did my research, went to the website first, quick Google searches. Started asking around. Had a call with Suhas, which is who I report to, our President and CEO.

Just picked his brain and asked him about the plans, expansion plans, plans for U.S. manufacturing. You know, where have they sold? Who have they sold to? Just all the things that you want to know before making the jump to join a company. 

And you know, the things that I heard intrigued me. I was very interested in the fact that we manufactured – 

Emmvee: From a hardware store to India’s first PV module manufacturing line and a $B company

Kermi: So tell me their story because we talked briefly about this in a  previous conversation. They started as a hardware store business, if I remember correctly.

Justin: Yep, so 31 years ago, Suhas’ dad owned a hardware business. And at this point, I think Suhas was just a small child, or maybe wasn’t even born then. But his dad owned a hardware store in India. And they had frequent challenges with the power outages and with getting hot water. 

And so from that he started making solar hot water heaters. And so that was the first product that we manufactured 31 years ago. And we still manufacture them today, mainly for the Indian market because, you know, very popular there. 

And then in 2006, is when they put in the first PV module line. At the time it was the first PV module line in India, the whole country of India, It was 15 MW fully-automated, for the most part. And from there, they’ve just kind of consistently and conservatively grown the business. No debt, over a $billion in assets, so – 

Kerim: That’s incredible.

Justin: They’ve done a really good job of slow and steady building the business, doing the right deals, not taking out a bunch of debt, and putting the business in a position to where you know, the things that you and I know that we experience in a solar business could take a company out, if they’re not in the right financial position. And so I’m glad that we like, I say, virtually, no debt, over a $billion in assets.

Kerim: That’s a really unique position in the solar industry for a  manufacturer. 

Justin: It is, it is. 

Kerim: It’s incredible. 

Justin: And for it to be privately-owned company. 

Kerim: Well, if you’ve got to be privately-owned to do that, because that’s actually the old mindset of, you know, entrepreneurs from 5,000 years ago. 

Justin: Yes, yes, yes. 

The scale and details of Emmvee’s 3GW manufacturing operations today in India and the US

Kerim: You know, so very cool. So what’s the scale of that 15-MW line now? You guys started in 2006, with a 15-MW line, first line in India. And now how big is the operations? And is India the only place of manufacturing, or do you guys go beyond, as well?

Justin: So right now, India is the only place in manufacturing. That 15- MW line is what we call now, unit one and that 15 MW is now 750 MW. And so that’s at our HQ Office so when I go to India you know, my office is steps away from this 750 MW module line. 

Kerim: And which metro area in India, by the way? 

Justin: It is in Bengaluru. So it is in South India. And so what we call unit 2 is our newer factory. It is probably an hour from the office. And it is where we have our other 2.25 GW online and our cell manufacturing as well. So in total, we have 3 GW of module assembly in India between unit one and unit 2. And then we’ve got 1.5 GW of cell manufacturing in India at unit 2.

Kerim: Wow. That’s impressive. So that is north of a $billion in sales, I’m sure.

Justin: Yes, yes, we are getting there. Yeah, we are getting there. We’re new to the U.S. market prior to my joining Emmvee. Emmvee had focused on the Indian market, Southeast Asia, Germany. We’ve got a sales office in Germany. 

And then so they brought me on board after. So they originally entered selling through distribution with Soligent, which I think was a sound strategy, and then they brought me on board to build out the team here in the US and lay the groundwork to build the demand to justify building a factory here in the US.

Kerim: Wow, so you guys are building a factory here in the US. 

Justin: Yeah. So we haven’t made any official announcements yet. But we have been previewing it to people. We’ve selected the site. It’s actually already constructed a building, ready to go. So in terms of timeframe it wouldn’t take that too long to get up and running. We’ve got equipment on order ready to go when we say ship. So right now, we’re just in the process of – 

Kerim: Should I edit this piece out? Or can I leave it in? This piece of information. 

Justin: You can leave it in because I didn’t give a location, and even the timeframe. 

Kerim: Yeah, okay. 

Justin: Or capacity. 

Kerim: Sounds good. Yeah. You guys are looking. Okay, that’s great. Okay. 

Justin: Yup. So right now, what we’re focused on is building the demand here, domestically, in the US to pre-fill or find an off-taker for the factory here in the US.

What are Emmvee’s key customers and go-to-market strategies?

Kerim: Right. So when you go and talk to U.S. customers, who are your key customers? You mentioned you entered the market with Soligent, as your key distributor, which I know really well from my old distribution days. We used to partner and compete with Soligent at the same time, as many companies do in distribution. 

But I assume you target utility-scale developers as well as commercial and maybe some residential. So how do you go to market? And what does that picture look like when you talk to customers? 

And yeah, let’s first talk about that. And then I have a follow-on question on what are the like key unique elements of Emmvee that makes Emmvee different for these customers to consider?

Justin: Yeah. So we sell across all three  markets, residential, C&I, utility- scale. Residential, we mainly service through distribution. And this is one of the larger resi developers, you know, who do a couple of 100 MW a year. We’d sell to them directly. 

And then in the C&I space, we take direct relationships with customers of size, project customers, you know, people who are doing big box stores, doing restaurants, hotels. And then we’re also in communication, and, you know, have been on, been in late-stage negotiations with, most of the top utility-scale developers here in the US.  

So you know, right now we’re on the mission like, I say, building demand building the brand, people. Although we’re a 30-year-old company, we’re a 30-year-old company that no one’s ever heard of. And so right now, that’s the mission. The mission is building the brand, getting the name out there, closing deals, and just doing it brick by brick.

Emmvee’s bankability. How to conduct due diligence on an international solar module manufacturer

Kerim: This sounds like you’re one of the biggest solar companies that nobody has heard of, and you’re also one of the most probably bankable companies that nobody has heard of but doesn’t have the Bloomberg tick mark, if I remember it from our previous conversations.

Justin: Yes, I should guess. That has been a point of frustration for simply because there are customers who fully, 100% rely on a Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) listing for who they are and are not, going to do business with. 

But that’s just surface level. I mean, even if you could go to Bloomberg New Energy Finance’s website and then you can look at the criteria, it’s 6 projects, 1.5 MW, or larger, financed by 6 different banks, with no recourse financing, got to be announced in a press release. But those metrics have no tie to the quality of the manufacturer, the balance sheet of the manufacturer, and they’ll even tell you on their website, “This information, this list is not to assess the quality of this company or the products that they sell.” 

So I think that what we found is that there are a set of players in the market who do a deeper dive. They ‘re talking to CEA. They’re talking to STS.

Kerim: Yeah, CEA, being – 

Justin: Clean Energy Associates.

Kerim: Yeah, which is an advisory firm for U.S. developers buying from you know, modules from overseas manufacturers. 

Justin: Yes, yes. So they provide consulting services. They come out to the factory. They do a factory audit, and then they give those results directly to the developer. They’ll tell them, “Hey, this is what we saw. You know. We think this about the company. We think this about the product.” 

And then even DNV GL. So they’ve done a technology and bankability report. So like, I say, I think there’s a subset of customers who move beyond the surface and actually look under the hood. We provide all these documents to them. We’ve had a factory audit by DNV GL. We’ve had a factory audit by CEA. We’ve had a traceability done by STS. 

Kerim: DNV GL – being Dunn & Bradstreet?

Justin: DNV. So DNV is an engineering firm. GL is just like LLC. LLC is here in the US. 

Kerim: Yeah, yeah. Yep. Okay. 

Justin: So they’re an engineering firm similar, I think their main competitor might be like Black & Veatch. And so they –

Kerim: They do their own studies and share them. 

Justin: Yeah, they do their own studies. So you know, once we provide all this information, we’ve got our full results from PVEL. We got high marks across the board. So we provide them the PVEL report, the DNV GL report. They can talk to CEA about us. They can get the traceability report from STS. So these are the items that people should be using you know, if they’re completing proper due diligence and determining which module they want to work with.

Emmvee’s global manufacturing capacity and reach

Kerim: Got it. Got it. And can you also tell me a little bit about the global reach of – or the you know, the global split between your 3 GW of production? What percent of that is India right now? How much of it is outside of India? What are the key other markets beyond the US and India? And how is that going to also change in the coming years? 

Justin: Yeah. So it varies, and it varies based on what contracts we go out and sign. So right now we just signed a 350-MW deal that we’ve got to supply. It’s not in US. It’s outside the US, that we’ve got to supply beginning in January of next year through – I want to say around like May.

So that, you know, we’re going to take a lot of our capacity and send it there. But on average, what we try to stay at is around 35%, 40% in the US. And then the remaining, elsewhere. But that’s not a hard parameter. We can change, as needed. Like, I say, the goal is to build the demand here, so we can finalize the factory here, so we’ll be able to service our customers from our modules here. 

And then should we need to dip into the capacity from the Indian factory, we’ve got that available, too.

What do you say to folks who have a difficult time trusting Indian manufacturing companies?

Kerim: Right. And what do you say to folks that have a hard time trusting an Indian manufacturing and an Indian company buying modules from you? And along with that, like, what are the specific things that make Emmvee unique? 

Justin: Yeah. I would just say that you know, based on our track record, we couldn’t have been around 30 years if we had a bad reputation and we weren’t doing business in the proper way. 

Also, those third party assessments are really important. Nobody’s going to vouch for a company that they don’t think is going to conduct business in the proper way, but I always tell customers all the time, just keep the tires, looking under the hood.

Come to the factory. You know, we’ll bring you out to India. We’ll give you a factory tour. You’ll get to walk the line, see all the quality control checks. 

Or even if you have a small project, if you can make it over to India, even if you have a small project, you know, we tell customers all the time, if you’ve got a portfolio of 500 MW, and you’re a little skittish about doing business with us, allocate 50 MW of that 500 MW. See how the transaction goes. See how the product performs in the field. You know, we stand behind our business practices, and then also our products.

I certainly wouldn’t be here and putting my name and reputation on the line if it weren’t the right thing to do. 

Kerim: Yeah. Well, Justin, thank you so much for all this information. Great, great content on Emmvee, and great level of detail on your operations.

And any last words that we should cover in this session?

How to reach Emmvee?

Justin: I would just say that if we haven’t reached out whoever’s watching this podcast, if we haven’t already reached out to you, feel free to reach out to us. You can reach me at justin@emmvee (E-M-M-V-E-E).in. 

We’d love to talk to you, chat with you. Doesn’t have to be salesy, just we want to know who everybody is, what everybody’s doing, and again build a brand. It just lets you know that even if we don’t do business today, that doesn’t mean we can’t do business tomorrow.

Kerim: Right. Well, thanks. Thanks again, Justin. Thank you for all this information.

Justin: Thank you.